6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy?? in Great Dane Health Forum

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6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??

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SariYappa	6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??		Lead	[-]
Posts: 35 May 12 07 3:46 PM	Tags : None Remove this ad Hi! I am a new Great Dane owner, had my Pup for 2 days now. You'll need some background to understand my concerns, and "diagnose" if she has possible issues. I am very nervous that something is wrong, but keep finding postings that make me feel a little better. So I decided to join, and just state our case. "puppy" (no name yet) was born to a breeder, and the Mommy was bred back to back (an accident I was told). When they got home from work, they discovered she had puppies, and killed 7 out of 9 pups by laying on them! The concensus is that she was tired of being a Mommy. So, they found their way to a kennel that I frequent, they were being bottle fed, and I joined in on the fun. Needless to say I fell hopelessly in love with the little girl. I really think she picked me! She was fed Esbilac in a baby bottle 3 times a day, then at about 4.5 weeks was gradually switched to adult kibbles, soaked and blended. She just turned 6 weeks old now, and brother was sold 2 days ago. So, I have her home now. I mix the Esbilac with boiled water and soak the kibbles, still blend it a little, and do this about 3 times a day. So, here are my questions and concerns. She is the sweetest quietest, most layed back puppy I ever met! ( am experienced with all kinds of dogs, but not GD's). She sleeps most of the day, actually falls asleep while leaning on somebody's leg! She started out smarter and growing faster than her brother, but by the time they left eachother, he was walking WAY better and he was eating chunkier food earlier. She is still weak in the hind legs. She falls a lot, sometimes flops over the side, sometimes just kind of sit-falls in her poop or pee when she tries to go. Is this normal for such a young pup that wasn't fed by mom? Even if brother is better??????? Is it normal for her to be sleeping so much, and not really play a whole lot? She does enjoy some time with her new "big sister" Piper, who is a 2 yr old mix around 45 lbs. but it doesn't last long. She does wag her tail with people, and lets people and kids play with her, but it's almost like she is sleeping and they are doing whatever they want to with her! And she yelps when you try to pick her up right after she eats. (only for a second). And sometimes it seems it might hurt a little bit to poop, although it may be because of her legs???? She whines sometimes, but for the most part is very happy in her cage, or anywhere else, as long as she gets to sleep! Do you think I should even think of worrying about her hips at such a young and fragile age? Do I need to de-worm her immediately if she never was, and is just 6 weeks now, and shows no signs in her poop? Should she be falling over like she does? Should she be sensitive sometimes when you pick her up? I cannot make her very uncomfortable when I "check her out", it just seems to be a reaction. Any and all help is appreciated. I am not trying to replace my vet, she's going this coming week, but I am a very worried new Mommy!! Thanks. Oh, and I am also looking for names for a fawn female!
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smittyrocdanes	A few opinions	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 166 May 12 07 6:15 PM	Any Great Dane puppy sleeps alot, so I wouldn't be so worried about that aspect. She definately needs to be dewormed! I deworm my puppies starting at 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 5 weeks, and then again at 6 weeks. No signs of worms doesn't mean there aren't any! You need a microscope for that. Her being wobbly and sitting in her own poop/pee is not normal. Puppies should be solidly walking and using the bathroom by 4 weeks. Well ..., keeping in mind most great danes do not get their "nobility or regalness" until adulthood because of their "4 left feet." Sometimes they appear goofy or trip on their huge paws until about a year. But by no means should she be weak in the rear end. Do you know if she was breast fed for any length of time? Most newborns must eat every 2-3 hours until about 3-4 weeks old. So being bottle fed only 3 times a day threw up a "red flag." What type of kibble was she weaned onto? Definately seek vet advice ASAP and then with a possible diagnosis, and before any drastic measures from the vet, I would seek more homeopathic and herbal remedies from Cricket or SheBangsNS. I will advise them of this post. With a diagnosis, they may be able to save you a ton of money and with much better results than with some veteranarian "cures." But get that baby wormed ASAP! And make sure she is on a quality dog food like EAGLE PACK. Best of luck, Natasha Smith SmittyrocDanes www.smittyrocdanes.com
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SariYappa	Thanks for responding!	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 12 07 6:37 PM	Thanks a lot. And I'm glad you will advise them of my post. I have put a call into the original breeders, but have not heard anything yet. I have been reading all the posts on food, and am going shopping tomorrow! The kennel gave me some food with her until I got her my own. I just called them (because I'm reading all this stuff on this site!) and apparently it was Purina One Lamb and Rice, and of course, mixed with the Isbilac dry milk. (it was given to me in a glass jar, so I didn't have the package). I do not think she was breast fed at all But again I am expecting a call back from the original owners to find out more. I have on my shopping list the following foods to check out: Canidae all life stages chicken soup eagle giant puppy natural balance wellness solid gold california natural Please let me know if I should cross any of them out! Do you think this is a hip dysplasia thing, or a nutritional thing, or something else I never heard of?? Thanks for your input. Sariyappa
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Cricket36580	Re: Thanks for responding!	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1279 May 12 07 9:28 PM	EP puppy is the best choice, with SG coming in second. I'm hearing good things about CA natural too. HOD can certainly be a nutritional thing as well as genetic predispositioning. Is there anyone close to you that you can get raw goat's milk? Bella-18mos pet marked mantle bitch Foster-3yr, pet marked mantle male Baloo-8ish, Great Pyr Polar Bear
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SariYappa	Re: Thanks for responding!	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 12 07 9:39 PM	Hi Cricket, thanks for responding! 1st, If I understand you correctly, my top 3 choices of food right now are Eagle Giant Puppy, then Solid Gold, then California Natural, correct? 2nd, is HOD an acronym for Hip Displasia? 3rd, if it is nutritional, at this early of a stage, can it be completely corrected??? I am so distraught at the thought that our new baby is already disabled... And believe it or not, the kennel where I got her (and know the owners well) raise Pygmy goats! I'm guessing one has to have just had kids to get milk?? Or is it more like a cow?? (I just don't know these things I will get some first thing in the morning if there is any chance of it!! (i'm going to call and wake her now!) She is getting stronger and better at walking everyday, but also I noticed she is whining more when she needs to go potty. Thanks for all your help! I'll do anything for her!! Sari
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aaGD	Re: Thanks for responding!	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2476 May 13 07 1:10 AM *Jeff*	No, this sounds similar to HD, Hip Dysplasia yet it is totally different! HOD, acronym/short for Hypertrophic Osteodystrophy typically afflicts puppies from (2) two, to (8) eight-months of age. By my undersatnding, HOD is a result of unusual blood flow to bone/growth plates resulting in slow/delayed production of bone mass. Pain and lameness can occur and are typical symptoms. As well as loss of appetite, emotional regression and withdrawal, acute/pain lameness and more. This should be considered serious. It's good to see you are already in touch with two of our best here. Jeff Z. Jeff, Bruiser & The aaGD.com Team all-about-Great-Danes.com
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Cricket36580	Re: Thanks for responding!	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1279 May 13 07 7:29 AM	You know, I had a friend of mine who had a bitch lay on her pups. 2 of them had something like you describe. However, with careful nutrition and lots of structured excercise (moving joints manually, walking, stretching, massage) the pups are fine today. Puppies are weird creatures. They'll bounce back from some of the most horrific things yet will get sick at the drop of the hat. Go figure. However, I would still start saving for that new pair of hips you might be buying one day. You won't know until after the baby is 2 whether or not you will, and if you don't then you can always take a vacation to Tahoe. Yes, you got the foods correct. The reason I say goat's milk is because it has so many more minerals and vitamins and enzymes than cow's....and compared to store bought milk, there really isn't a comparison. Store milk is basically opaque water. Anyway, it will really help with his digestion and adding good flora to the gut and will add usuable vitamins, minerals, and enzymes. Bella-18mos pet marked mantle bitch Foster-3yr, pet marked mantle male Baloo-8ish, Great Pyr Polar Bear
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 13 07 8:37 AM	Thanks to you both. Puppy is actually feeling a little better today. She has grown a ridiculous amount for just 2 days! I started feeding her less at a time, and more often. Her belly is smaller, and seems to be less squeeking when you pick her up after eating! She is taller, and walking much better, although she is still falling just as easy when squatting. Pygmy goat milk apparantly will not do the trick, so it's off to the local farm to get some real stuff. She'll have it today if it kills me! It's mother's day, she is my gift, and she has to be healthy!! I found out she did get 4 days worth of milk from Mommy. That's all the new news so far. Thanks again and I'll keep you posted. Any new ideas are also appreciated if you think of something new. Sari
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ShebangsNS	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 632 May 13 07 4:46 PM	Kudos to you for taking on the new role of your new puppy. You have quite a few things here that can lead to some serious malnutrition issues that you can hopefully fix. The nutrition is a must to start with. When they are telling you Eagle Pack Large & Giant Breed Puppy, you want the holistic version. This I strongly suggest if you are not going to go with a raw diet. You can start with Vit C around 500mg per day. Give 250 twice a day. The Vit C will help with the strengthening of the bones and act as an antioxidant. I would also look into deworming use Black-Leaf by Nzymes. If it is roundworms or any other type the Black-Leaf will wipe them out. I have more to say but I have had an exhausting weekend doing a dog expo and CGC testing. I will post more once I have rested, but I wanted to put more assurance with what Smitty and Cricket have been saying. Edited 1 time by PawZing Dec 8 07 12:06 AM.
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 13 07 5:20 PM	Hello Michael. Thanks for taking the time to reply even when you are exhausted. I understand! It really is a small world. I just went to your website, and realized that your wife is friends with my cousin Heather! (actually my husband's cousin). When I told her about puppy, and that she may be coming home with us, she directed me to your website, and I sent an email with some of her information! It really is a small world. When you are finished resting, I would love to talk to someone in person, maybe we can speak on the phone?? I'd love to be able to explain a few more things, and I can send either pictures or videos of her so you can have an opinion. I cannot get the eagle food today because here in SC we have blue laws, and apparantly none of the pet supply places that carry the good stuff are open. So, it's off the the store in the morning. I"ve been compensating with more esbilac and have already started the vitamin C yesterday! Oh, and unfortunately the Pygmy's are not a good source for the milk. I have put feelers out to two local farms, and hopefully on a Monday I can actually get some cooperation! 4 important questions: 1. Should I be using the powder vitamin C, or is it ok to melt the tablets? (suggestions on brand, etc are welcome) 2. When looking up the Eagle food, I was very confused with all the different ones, and wanted to know which one to get. You did answer that mostly. I see the holistic, is it better to get the holistic giant puppy, or should i get the maintenance adult, or the wolf?? They don't seem to be as low in the protein as I was expecting. 3. Am I able to buy dewormer, and do it myself?? I will probably look this up before you answer me :-) 4. When I go to the vet, is it OK to give her shots if we are not sure that she is healthy?? Ok, well hopefully I can get in to the vet tomorrow, and will have much more info, and a professional opininon on someone that can see her in person. However, I am not the kind to take the opinion of only one source. And so, I am very interested in your expertise, since she is not a Dane specialist. The good news is that they have 2 Danes at the vet, that live there. So hopefully they know more than a vet that doesn't have one! Ok, looking forward to much more communication. Thanks for helping me out! P.S. She is very happy today, and playing much more than ever before. And socializing with her big Sister Piper too. :-) Sari
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 13 07 6:47 PM	Remove this ad Here are some pics of the pup, that in my opinion show how she is weak in her hind leg area. The first one shows how she CAN stand and sometimes looks normal with neighbor mini poodle 8 lbs with her sister Piper
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Cricket36580	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1279 May 13 07 8:59 PM	Someone else will have to be the "expert" here but the weakness in the backend is most likely something she'll outgrow. That being said, I think I would follow a very conservative vaccination protocol to be safe. And I would also read up on Wobbler's. Do you have any accupunturists in your area? Bella-18mos pet marked mantle bitch Foster-3yr, pet marked mantle male Baloo-8ish, Great Pyr Polar Bear
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 14 07 2:38 PM	Hello everyone. It's Monday, and I have updates on Puppy!! 1st, to address Cricket's last comment. I have read a lot on wobblers, and it usually doesn't show up this early. The test that can be done at home doesn't seem to be able to be done at her age either. Not to say she doesn't have it, I just can't get it diagnosed at this early stage. Thanks for the comments. Now, I stayed in the veterinarian's office all day today while my child was at school. I wasn't leaving till the best vet in town looked at my puppy! Let's start with the bottom line so I don't keep you all guessing. She is just developed to a 3 week old Great Dane! Even though she is 6 and 1/2 weeks old, she has all the development, right down to the little lump on her nose of a 3 week old. She is only 3.4 lbs!!!! All the symptoms I am worried about are normal for 3 weeks. So, what is the cause? What is the solution? This is what we know, or have been told. First off, the breeders NEVER had her wormed! The small slide showed over 100 eggs for hook worm, and she should have been bleeding, but showed no signs! Vet says for some reason at her age and size, she is just a VERY LUCKY puppy! This has probably been going on for a long time, and therefore can rob her of all her nutrition, make her anemic, and gives her the "squeeks" everytime she eats or goes potty! (like i mentioned earlier) She has had her first deworming today, and I have some to give her in 7 days. She's going back to Dr. Patch in 3 weeks, unless she is not growing, or showing signs of sickness. The shots were a harder decision. Normally it is not safe to give them to one that is so weak, and small, and has other problems like the worms. BUT, we decided to do it because if she gets contact to any parvo, or alike, she will most likely die very quickly! She has been in a kennel around all kinds of dogs most of her life, and now lives with another dog, and has 1-2 dogs each house in our neighborhood. We (vet and I) thought it may be the lesser of two evils. Don't know if that is correct, but it is done. She did great with all the tugging and pulling of limbs, and her eyes also show just as slow development, being at about 3 weeks old too. Since she is developing so slowly, I was told to put her on a "real" puppy diet for a small amount of time, to try and kickstart her growth. He said we need to treat her like a small puppy for a short time, then when she grows into her age, go straight onto the regular Great Dane regimen. I already bought a 40 lb. bag of Eagle Pack Holistic Giant Puppy before the vet visit, and am sure I'll be very happy to have it in about 2 weeks from now! Also, I am still supplementing her with the esbilac in her food. She is getting the small puppy small bite science diet for the next couple of weeks. Also if she doesn't have any adverse affects, and doesn't get bad stools, then we'll do the goats milk too. This will be a very stressful 3 weeks, but if she gets rid of the worms, and grows into her weight, then I think she may be fully recovered! (sometimes you just never know). But if she gets into any other dog's virus or such, we can loose her in the next couple of weeks. So, thanks to all for staying with me on this. Please give me your opinions on what the vet told me. He does see a LOT of great danes and comes highly recommended. (so?) :-) I am not giving up on her, and will do whatever it takes to get her where she needs to be! Right now, only time will tell. P.S. she pooped today without falling in it! ;-)
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RockyV180	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1721 May 14 07 2:52 PM	If she were mine, I would spend anything needed to get her healthy since she seems well away from a lost cause. You should be proud your doing this to help a little one. Your an angel.
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 14 07 3:30 PM	Thank you so much (tears in the eyes). This has been a very emotional time, but I have to tell you, that she picked me for a reason. She is so deeply embedded in my heart, that I would do anything for her, and am. And She will be a stronger puppy, and I will be a better person for it. Again, Thanks for the kind words. And, on another note, we gave ourselves until the end of tomorrow to name her! Puppy just isn't good enough. You could see her pitiful pics, but it's so hard to name a 3.4 lb little bit that will probably be 150 lbs one day! Here are the names we are considering, and are open to LOTS more ideas! Dizzy KiKi Pebbles Roxy Sheba Penny Freebie China Hippi Nestle It's so nice to talk about something positive for her! :-) Sari
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RockyV180	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1721 May 14 07 3:44 PM	Destiny (for short Desty) Patch (for the guy who saved her) Jill ( caused she climbed a big hill) But I like Pebbles and Roxy. Droopy Lexus Mine will be a boy so all I've been thinking about is boys names. Tank is number one for now but I also like Moose. I had a Pomeranian named Penelope, we called her Penny. She was 4 lbs. Boy, is a Dane gonna be different.
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ShebangsNS	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 632 May 14 07 5:12 PM	Just by going form the pictures I would have to say that this puppy looks very much like a four week old puppy. Not only from the size, but the head shape, the carpals, and a few other things. This would explain your vets explanation on what he thinks on how it is developed. Personally, I think someone could be misleading about the age. With this in mind, I would have never done any vaccinations on the puppy. Nor would I, if it was even six weeks of age. Especially, since we know this puppy does not have a natural immune system. It received no colostrum from the mother. But, again this puppy looks to be four weeks, which would never receive a vaccine at that age. Never do you want to kickstart the growth of a puppy in any giant or large breed. You are playing with fire by introducing that puppy food. Let's say that the puppy really is six weeks of age, and is severely underdeveloped. By speeding up this process you are going to flood the body with inappropriate nutrients that it can't use. Its little body is already showing that it isn't growing correctly. We know using a puppy food, especially that of SD, is the most incorrect food to grow a puppy on, why would you want to double the rate at which you can ruin its growth? This is still assuming that this puppy is six weeks of age. Let's hope for your sake that it is. Not that two weeks will be any different as far as the nutritional value at which it digests its food. Either way, if the little body can't keep up with nutrition now, increasing the content will now produce a larger bone mass on a body that can't support it. Remember, the key is to grow slowly, no matter what. On a different note, hopefully one of two things doesn't happen here. One, hopefully the hooks won't take over the digestive track. Two, hopefully she won't contract parvo from the vaccine. Now for all best hope she is four weeks and feeding her an appropriate diet for a Great Dane will make everything just right. Even if she is six weeks, feeding an appropriate diet will give you a better chance than the SD. Now for the name of your new puppy. I kinda believe as smittyroc does in what you name your dog can inflict some future lifestyle. With that in mind and what you have already absorbed in expenses already, I would name her Penny! Michael Davis Edited 1 time by PawZing Dec 8 07 12:11 AM.
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SariYappa	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 14 07 7:33 PM	Michael, Thanks for your reply. I can absolutely see how you would feel (just like the doctor did) that I was wrong on the date the puppy was born. However, it was 3 1/2 weeks ago that the puppy was first left at the kennel for the first time, and by far it was not new born at that time. That's the only reason that we are sure about the time-frame, because even not knowing as much myself, I too was questioning it! Now, I did the shots, so I can't turn back on that one. I am only trying to do what's best, and that's why I am sharing with you guys what happened at the vet, so I can get a rounded opinion one way or the other. I have her here, and I have the giant puppy food from Eagle, and the science diet. If you think under the current circumstances, knowing she is definitely 6 and 1/2 weeks old, that I should give her the Eagle, then I will. DO YOU THINK THE HOOKWORMS COULD BE THE MAIN REASON FOR HER DEFICIENCY, BESIDES MOMMY'S MILK??? Have you ever heard of other reasons why such a phenomenon would occur? Because the vet felt that if she was 3 weeks old, she was perfectly healthy! On another note, I was thinking "Lucky" was also an appropriate name... I hope... P.S. Is the Darwin email address you too?
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Cricket36580	Re: 6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1279 May 14 07 9:16 PM	I have to jump on the wagon with Micheal here. EP is going to be the best bet nutritionally. And yes, parasitic infestation can cause a retardation of developement. And if you don't worm with panacure for at least 3 days, you won't be getting them. Yes, droncit and the like will take care of a normal infestation, however, your's isn't "normal". Fortunately, panacure (safeguard) is available otc at places like Petsmart and WalMart. Worming needs to be done again AFTER 14 days...as that's the hatch cycle of the eggs and any that only lost the segmants (instead of the head) will be able to be killed. Or you could start a daily regimine of Black Leaf Wormer or diatamaceous earth. DE is difficult to find though as you have to use food grade. The dosage is kind of high too so it may not be viable in your case. And I like the name Eagle for her...She's gonna soar one day! Bella-18mos pet marked mantle bitch Foster-3yr, pet marked mantle male Baloo-8ish, Great Pyr Polar Bear
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smittyrocdanes	Nutrition	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 166 May 14 07 9:26 PM	I have to agree with SheBangs on the diet issue. Science Diet is full of "crap" if you read the label. I wean my puppies starting at 3 weeks straight onto Eagle Pack - the actually start "stealing" from mom's bowl. Don't forget, veternaians endorse Science Diet because they get "kick-backs" from it. They receive funding to push that particular food. My vet carries it, but won't even feed it to his own dogs! He feeds Eagle Pack and has it delivered to his house with his 40 bags of Horse Grain for his 160 horse farm! I like Destiny or Penny. She is destined to be a surviver at the price of a pretty penny! Natasha Smith SmittyrocDanes www.smittyrocdanes.com
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SariYappa	Re: Nutrition	#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 May 14 07 10:47 PM	Remove this ad Again thanks. I hear you all about the food issue. I have the Eagle pack, and she's getting it for breakfast. No worries! On the worms issue: I hope I can rely on my vet to be right on some issues? He gave her Pypa Wormer today, and gave me a dose to give her again in 7 days. Does this compare to the stuff you guys are talking about? He did do a fecal to properly diagnose. Puppy was very cooperative, and gave us a sampling in the waiting room! lol. Thanks for the input on names. Tomorrow I'll be spending my Birthday with husband and son. By the end of the day, we will decide together. I have given my input, as well as yours! :-) Hope you and yours have a pleasant night.
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6 wk bottle fed puppy: Healthy??

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