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rjharcher |
WHat would I get? |
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I was wondering out of curiosity what color might I get if I bred Dozer. He is a black bred from a black mother and blue father. His mother and father both
have some white (very little) so that indicates to me that they have some Harl. or Mantel in them some where. But would it be possible for Dozer to father a
blue pup. And what color combinations possible if bred to a Harl.. I am not going to breed him was just wondering.
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bluedanemom |
#1 | |||
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Coat color and genetics is so much bigger than mom and dad. First of all, If he comes from a Black Mom and Blue Dad and an ethical breeder, he is most likely a
blue-bred black. Therefore, according to GDCA standards, he should only be bred to another black or to a blue, NOT a harlequin. Where is the white on the
parents? White on the chest has nothing to do with harlequin/mantle breeding, it is very common in "solid" colored dogs such as blues and blacks, and
can even be see in fawn/brindle. Though it is common, it is undesirable according to the standard.
I know you are just wondering, but as a note, breeding should be left to the professionals. Those people with Champion dogs that understand the breed, research pedigrees, and breed for the betterment of the breed. |
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rjharcher |
#2 | |||
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The white on the parents is on the chest. He is a great dog so no regrets with him but I did get him from a breeder that is new to breeding Danes and probably
doesn't go buy the Standards strictly. But I did see the pictures of his parents and the white is on the chest. Seeing them in person was not an option
since I live in Alaska and traveling to Alabama was not fesible for me. There were no puppies available from local breeders and probably won't be for a
year or more. Thats why I looked elsewhere. But as I said earlier I am not going to breed him just am curious.
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fotodanes |
#3 | |||
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a breeder that is new to breeding Danes and probably doesn't go buy the Standards strictly
This is a common thought process, however no breeder should be reinventing the wheel. Anyone breeding a litter should understand the standard, especially the easy things like coat color. A new breeder should be working with an experienced mentor, as well as a network of experienced breeder friends. This isn't a lash out at you at all, I just get so frustrated as so many people believe that they need to "learn as they go" about breeding. Sure, everyone has to start somewhere, but why not have that "somewhere" be utilizing information and knowledge from those that came before? A surgeon goes to school for a long time before ever performing an operation. They are a student that watches first. They don't just jump right into performing their own operations! So, please, any aspiring breeders reading this, get involved in the breed through rescue, clubs, shows and responsible mentors first! <climbing down off my soapbox now>
Bev |
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gardenreed |
#4 | |||
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Amen! Venus isn't spayed yet because I was waiting for her chest to drop and was going to trial her in the show ring for six months. She's 20 months
old now, her chest still hasn't dropped, and I'm starting to think it never will. I'm giving it until her second birthday, and then off to the vet
she goes. There's no sense in even keeping her intact if her shoulders and ribcage look like they belong on a Greyhound. She's gorgeous, and I
wouldn't trade her for the world, but I'm pretty sure she won't be getting bred. Ever.
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dane momma |
#5 | |||
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Hmmmm . . . this brings up some thought. My gal is 9 weeks old at the moment. She's a black -- dam is black, sire is a harlequin. There's a lot of
breeders in my area and I was thinking about breeding her someday while kind of working alongside a breeder that I do a lot of chatting and such with.
But, I would absolutely LOVE to take her into the show ring and see how she does. I haven't sent in her registration papers yet, but I plan on getting the silver package with a three generation pedigree. But for someone new to the purebred dog world, I simply have no idea where to get started! I mean, I could track down local events, but then what? I know a lot of show dogs have Canine good citizen awards and go through obedience training. I assume I could grab the breed standards off of the AKC website. But are there any good resources for people to get their feet wet in show and breeding? As of right now I don't plan on breeding her, but I don't want to eliminate the chance, as I might be much more knowledgeable in three years. |
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nicksdane |
#6 | |||
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A good place to start would be checking out your local Great Dane Club. They might have members that actually judge and or show. Be prepared for some harsh or
very blunt feed back. Do not take it to heart, and just get as knowladgeable as you can. How much white does your princess have? If knowledge serves me right
which often it doesn't white is undesirable on black, but not disqualifying in its self. Remember no champion Dane or other breed for that matter is
perfect, just the best example of the breed standard. Its the package as a whole my dear that they are looking for.
I am also new to the show ring and I am thinking about showing my Harl boy as well. best of luck and best wishes.. I just saw pics of your little girl and from what I can tell its just some white on the chest and on the toes. If thats all she has than your fine, you will still get dinged in points for it, but remember its the package as a whole.. Nick, Zeus, and Ares
Last Edited By: nicksdane 05/05/2009 12:54 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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fotodanes |
#7 | |||
dane momma wrote:I think it's good that you're taking it slow. Showing is a great way to get connected to other Dane people, learn about structure, plus get your dog evaluated by someone who is unbiased and educated. Showing offers a greater perspective. Nick's suggestion of joining a Dane club is perfect. I would encourage that as well. It will allow you to start meeting people and learning about showing. To find a Dane club in your area, check out the GDCA affiliate club listing. The dog world is small, so don't be discouraged if you find the Dane club meetings are an hour or two away from you. I drive about 45 minutes (one way) for my Dane club meetings and we have members that drive lots further than me. I would still encourage you to join and at least try to make some of the meetings. You might also want to join a local all-breed club. Check out AKC's club search and look for an all-breed (conformation) club. The nice thing about all-breed clubs is that you can usually find one with meetings a little closer (assuming you have to drive for your breed-specific club meetings). Plus, it's a nice way to meet people outside your breed. Here is some helpful info about showing - Dog Show FAQ. Lots of good links within that article. Obtaining a CGC is a good goal. It's like a "first level" of obedience. With some basic training and socialization, most dogs with stable temperaments can achieve a CGC. Even if you decide not to show in the breed ring (conformation), there are lots of other fun dog sports, like obedience, agility, tracking, and more. Find a local obedience club and get involved there. When I hear about people aspiring to breed, I encourage them to spay/neuter their current dog. Why? Because, it's unlikely that one will acquire a truly great breeding candidate from a really great breeder on happen-chance. Responsible breeders are careful about how their pups are placed and have spay/neuter contracts in place. This doesn't mean a current pet isn't a wonderful pet. Their worth as a companion isn't tied to breeding. Please feel free to PM/email me with any questions, big or small. I'd be happy to help you learn the ropes! Bev |
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Born4DaneS |
#8 | |||
bluedanemom wrote: Just a quick question, How did the professional breeders become professionals? Because im sure they didnt all start as professionals.
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fotodanes |
#9 | |||
Born4DaneS wrote:I hesitate using the term "professional", because it always sounds to me like business venture. Responsible breeders learn from those that came before them. They work with a mentor. When they first get into a breed, they spay/neuter their pets and seek out the best breeding candidate possible. They then show that dog to a championship, complete health tests and then start thinking about breeding (with their mentor still at their side). These fledgling breeders get involved in the breed in a holistic sense. They attend educational seminars and connect with lots of different breed fanciers. They don't sit in their own backyard, gazing at their own dogs, proclaiming how great they are. <G> Acquiring a purebred dog and then finding another intact dog to produce a litter of puppies does not make a responsible breeder. Bev |
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BigJaxDane |
#10 | |||
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About the student jumping into surgery.......you'd be surprised.
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Shelly |
#11 | |||
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our Ringo father is also a Dozer lol Hes a blue merle and his Mrs is a harliquin...they had one black pup a black and white collared pup 5 harliquins and 2
grey merles...so i am not too sure what you would get..its kinda like a kinder egg Great dane surprise teeheehee
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bluedanemom |
#12 | |||
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You don't want surprises when breeding dogs... not even in colors. Genetics is a straightforward thing. If every breeder followed the standards for
breeding and the color code, there wouldn't be surprises.
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Shelly |
#13 | |||
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can you get your dogs checked for gentic colourings? it would be too costly?
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fotodanes |
#14 | |||
Shelly wrote:Yes, you can test for some colors. Check out current Coat Color Research. Some examples of what a breeder might want to test (noted from link): SOME EXAMPLES OF WHEN SPECIFIC BREEDERS MIGHT WANT TO COLOR TEST (note this list is NOT complete for all possible testing scenarios or every example where a breeder/owner might want to test their Dane(s) for color issues): (1) OF CONCERN TO FAWN/BRINDLE BREEDERS: blue carrier? (Test for Black vs. Blue) (2) OF CONCERN TO FAWN/BRINDLE BREEDERS: true for mask? (Test for Masking homozygosity) (3) OF CONCERN TO BLACK/BLUE BREEDERS: fawn carrier? (Test for Black homozygosity) (4) OF CONCERN TO BLACK BREEDERS: fawn and/or blue carrier? (Test for Black vs. Blue and/or Black homozygosity) (5) OF CONCERN TO HARLEQUIN/MANTLE BREEDERS: fawn and/or blue carrier? (Test for Black vs. Blue and/or Black homozygosity) (6) OF CONCERN TO HARLEQUIN/MANTLE BREEDERS: what is the genotype of this predominately white Dane? (Test for both merle and piebald) I haven't purchased any tests myself, but my understanding is that they are reasonably priced. If a breeder had concerns about their dog carrying a certain recessive, it would be worth the investment.While knowing the pedigrees and understanding the basics of coat color inheritance are important when breeding (coat color is one of the easiest things to understand when it comes to breeding...if a breeder doesn't know these easy things, think about the more complicated issues related to health and structure stability, they don't get), harls do not "breed true", so there will always be the anticipation when whelping of what you will get. Even when they're not carrying any recessive colors from other color families, a breeder can still end up without a single show marked puppy. Bev |
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Shelly |
#15 | |||
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wow Bev i didnt know it got this complicated!!!! I am so glad im not thinking of breeding Ringo as it would be such a worry especially with defects and such!
thanks for explaining it all ... very interesting! Shellyx |
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dane momma |
#16 | |||
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Not to be a killjoy, but color should be one of the least of your concerns if you were to breed a dog. Not sure if someone said it, but Merles aren't
really supposed to be bred period, and blues can be bred to other blues or blacks, blacks can be bred to blues or Harls/Mantles, and fawns can be bred to
themselves and brindles, and that's about it. Not sure about the blues with harl/mantle, but I don't think it's one of the approved color
combinations.
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Sabine |
#17 | |||
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For the above post, it's not one of the approved colour combinations.
Believe it or not, there are some reputable breeders out there who breed with single factor merles, as the merle in question may be of outstanding quality conformation wise and simply have the inncorrect coat colour. The really should only ever be bred to blacks or Mantles though. Even then, its risky buisness because probability will dictate the likelyhood of having any pups that are born with both the good aspects of the parents AND are not merles. It's not very good odds lets put it that way. |
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